Sarah Ferguson, presenter: Bran Black, welcome to 7.30.
Brancrack, Australia Business Council: Thank you for welcoming me.
Sarah Ferguson: You just emerged from a long afternoon and a big discussion about AI. The conversation began on the side. That means that I am long apart from the union. How was it?
Bran Black: Well, there are points we oppose the union movement, and there are points we agree to. I think the positive thing about the conversation we've had up until now is that there are some agreements around the room.
I think it is important to note that in the first example, we must continue to develop the skillsets needed to take advantage of this huge opportunity. This means that employers have work to do. This means that the government has work to do. That means there are things that universities need to do.
The second point I really think is important is to see that we have the opportunity to create a national plan. Looking at other countries like Singapore, which are really moving forward in this respect, they are actually moving on to the second edition of the National Plan. They are trying to pursue planning opportunities. They describe it as a need rather than an opportunity. You need to look at it the same way.
Sarah Ferguson: Ask about the workers at the ceremony. Because what Actu is looking for is workers to be effective veto over introducing workers into the workforce. You are very opposed to it, so tell me about that argument.
BRAN BLACK: The way we see it, you have to develop evidence-based policies in terms of how you can go about doing something, especially in terms of key issues such as artificial intelligence.
What I see is that when I talk to members and, frankly, review what's going on around the world, I see there's a change in the way people work, but I see that AI is affecting their role. It does not replace their role.
Of course, there will be some instances where this happens, but our point is that we still think there is a good basis within existing laws and regulations.
Therefore, as the first point, we will perform gap analysis. Are there any issues that really require legislative intervention? If not, don't do that. But if you need to move forward, take a very careful look at the specific forces that regulators need. If you need additional force, insert these specific gaps.
Sarah Ferguson: So who protects workers? In situations where AI is introduced into the workplace and it affects the workforce, why do workers have no say in how it unfolds? What is your position?
BRAN BLACK: Well, at this point there is already a mechanism by which it happens. Therefore, under the fair work law, in situations where there are significant changes assumed to be made regarding the workforce, there is already a right and indeed obligation to discuss.
So I say it's a great example of a place where there is already a range of reliance on existing laws and processes. However, I think there is an important point that needs to be retreated a little. So what we are concerned about is that if you are in a hurry to adjust quickly, you will miss out on technology-related opportunities if you rush and regulate too much.
And if we reverse it, we may see the type of consequences we are trying to prevent, and it is the opportunity to move abroad and the lost work. We don't want to be in that situation.
Sarah Ferguson: Are workplaces obligated to provide workers with retraining or can they bring different workers to do new jobs?
BRAN BLACK: At this point, we're back to fair work laws again, and we're already having requirements for consultation with employees and attracting them in regards to opportunities for relocation within the company.
And of course, that extends to redundancy provisions in situations where there are no roles available within the organization. But I will emphasize that point. Regulations are already in place and we do not see the type of widespread workforce impact related to AI as some commentators have speculated. I really emphasize that.
It should not be regulated. We should not legislate based on fear. We should regulate and legislate based on facts and what we see on earth. The time may come, and there may be a point where additional steps may need to be taken, but we have not yet seen the evidence base emergence.
Sarah Ferguson: Regarding homes, about that discussion around that table, have you made progress on how to speed up building a home? I know that government goals seem out of reach. Have you gone anywhere today?
Bran Black: Well, I think we've made some useful advances. In the first example, I think there was a rather broad agreement that we would need to suspend the country's construction code. That's important, because perhaps to give a little colour, one of the great graphics produced by the productivity committee today showed that the average apartment building took over 7 years and still gets updated every three years.
So there may be situations where a single development will undergo three different code changes. This assumes that developers are not doing multiple different developments and must address all these different changes in multiple areas. That was one area I thought there was a pretty good agreement.
Similarly, I think we thought there was scope for reaching a widespread agreement on what the reform structure would look like from the perspective of the federal approval system and the EPBC. And that's a good starting point. That's a really important starting point.
The Devil is in detail and there are still many fixed issues, but if you can agree with a structure that is largely in line with Graham Samuel's recommendations, it's a great place.
Sarah Ferguson: Blanc Black, you've had a long day, but we ran, I'm going to ask you this. We talked to this evening about people who have AI bots and AI characters as friends. Do you want to have an AI character as a friend?
BRAN BLACK: In my role, if I had an AI bot as a friend, I think it would help me do a little more during the day. So, it will likely eventually prove to be very useful.
Sarah Ferguson: Leave it with us. I come up with something. Branblack, thank you for joining us.
BRAN BLACK: Thank you for taking part in the show.
