For more than 30 years, Kevin Riley has overseen the television installations that define our culture. Glee To Samantha Bee,hack to office.
Therefore, when he says that changes are happening, it is worth paying attention.
On Wednesday, the 63-year-old former NBC and FOX executive announced he was returning to the Hollywood stage after five years away. But instead of returning to a major media company, he will be joining Kartel, a little-known AI startup in Beverly Hills, as CEO.
Kartel doesn’t develop programming – Reilly leaves it alone – and doesn’t develop models. It’s for tech companies like Runway and Luma AI. Rather, it functions as a kind of intermediary between Silicon Valley and Hollywood, helping the latter promote machine-based video production, or, if you’re a more cynical type, hastening the demise of physical production.
As president of NBC’s entertainment division, Riley helped lobby for: 30 locks, friday night lights and america’s got talent;he will take on the same role at Fox. Brooklyn Nine-Nine was one of his passion projects. He then spent nearly seven years as Turner, culminating in the role that launched HBO Max. Therefore, facilitating the transition of companies to creating scenes using AI may be…unexpected.
But if Mr. Riley’s actions are surprising, they also come at a time when everyone from young assistants to veteran company presidents are wondering what will become of an industry beset by technological change, wondering whether to fight or hunker down (or jump, as he did earlier). Mr. Riley’s move almost serves as a metaphor for the HR flavor of an industry pivoting into the unknown.
We asked Riley what he thinks about that, what motivated his actions, and why he believes so many of his former colleagues are putting their lives at risk by fighting AI. The conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity.
The first thing many readers want to know is, “How did you spend your time?” We haven’t heard much from you outside of one or two advisory committees since you got on the wrong side of the AT&T-Warner restructuring in 2020.
It was one of the best chapters of my life. These big jobs are great, but they’re 24/7, especially in the midst of market winds, consolidation, and corporate disruption. I had no control over my schedule. It’s all great to be able to wake up in the morning and say, “How am I going to spend my time, remarry, and make my own life?” It’s like, “This is how humans live.” It’s not “What have you done for me lately?” I was there for the last of the good times at Time Warner. [beginning in 2014] However, after that, the management team changed every other year, making it a life-or-death situation. It was brutal.
Looking to get back to the executive suite in Hollywood?
In the past, you could sign a big contract, set up an office on the property, and get a huge amount of development funding. And of course it’s no longer available. So what do you do? I’ll be honest. There were days I thought I was going to shoot myself in the foot. I never said I was retiring. I was always trying to work on the next big thing. And then at some point things got pretty quiet and I thought, “Have I done this? Have I taken myself out of the game?” It quickly became clear that I would not be returning to the executive suite. And while I’ve learned in life to trust that the universe will guide me to where I’m supposed to be, there are days when I say, “OK, universe, now would be a good time.”
He must have been preparing himself. I mean, I know people don’t tend to cry over highly compensated executives losing their jobs, but we can all relate to feeling marginalized.
It was like that. A lot of people who are successful in whatever they do are used to bending the universe to their will, and then they realize that the universe has its own plans, and that was hard. There was a time when I was confident that I would be able to go back to work within a few weeks, but for some reason that didn’t happen. There were blowouts over funding and work being canceled at the 11th hour. And you have to say, “Okay, next year I’m going to do something different than I thought.” But then something funny happened. As the industry went into more of a defensive mode, I felt less sorry for myself and more like, “How do I find the next wave? How do I feel the way I felt earlier in my career when I was doing something culturally important?” I didn’t think I had the skills to build basic models or anything like that. But what I had to do with [Kartel co-founder] Luke Peterson. And he said, “Why don’t you come in and see what we’re doing?”
So how did that casual suggestion lead you to become an AI CEO?
I have had many different experiences in order to be at the forefront of culture. My early days were in FX with an entrepreneurial spirit. It was a hodgepodge of operations, with shag 70’s carpeting and ill-fitting office chairs. And at the other end was a multibillion-dollar business and a high-stakes gamble to get HBO Max off the ground. I’ve been successful in both, but there was something about the startup world. Luke had an early vision for Kartel, pivoting to AI, and now he’s starting to say, “We’re at a point where we need specialization. We need to figure out a way to absorb that into our corporate structure.” Because you can’t just put AI on board. There are so many separate tools out there that it can be very confusing and very unsettling. And I thought, “If I can be part of the solution, I can drive the culture again.” Brand Culture — Endgame may be different than just shocking content like we’ve experienced. office. But I felt like I was part of that wave, part of its impact.
How do you view cartels? Are you a tech company or something?
We are a technology company as well as a consulting company. This is a new category, a new field that was not possible before. We have a system that allows us to build around what is possible. Helping organizations understand the potential of AI and layering it can help ensure that AI is not viewed as overly complex or threatening. Let the studio be the studio. We connect to machines and help drive culture that way.
So what exactly does Kartel do that the studios and agencies themselves couldn’t do?
Looking at the workflow, there are many ways to achieve studio-quality output. Look at Sora. But the problem is, while this is a great tool, if you really want to use something reliable, it’s not enough to have the product working close enough. These outputs require quality control.
IIn other words, this can’t be the roulette we’re used to with video generation.
that’s right. Precision is required. So we started realizing that the ability to spin up workflows was what we wanted. It used to take a lot of manpower and time, but it no longer needs to be done. At my previous workplace, I attended a meeting. [a producer] You’d say something and we’d be like, “That’s a great conceptual idea, but how long will it take?” Then I hear “6 months.” Because, for example, you can’t fly a spaceship to Mars. It was a very tedious process to shoot it, render it, and handle all the things that needed to be done. And you’ll say, “But I need it next month!” Everything can feel unnecessarily costly, and of course you can’t really repeat it. And now, thanks to AI, what we can do is get everything done faster. We didn’t want to be an AI-powered studio. That didn’t seem like a long-term strategy for a company like ours. However, you can launch, build, and monitor custom solutions. Instead of waiting, you can repeat it 7 days a week. And you’re learning and constantly improving for your brand or studio.
And do you think this is a Madison Avenue play or a Hollywood play?
I think it’s both. Obviously it’s about branding and there’s a use case for Publicis. It’s very difficult to get consumers’ attention, but now there’s a way to customize your message [individually] To reach them in ways never before possible. You can more precisely tailor your messaging in a saturated culture. But there’s also a lot we can do for Hollywood. This isn’t a one-off thing you do for a minute here and there in the movie. It is serialized on an episodic basis. We’re incorporating AI into our workflows.
But would it be weird to try to sell some of this to an old colleague when almost every company is suing AI companies right now?
The great thing is that this business isn’t one where you have to make huge statements about your entire company. There may be departments that use it for very specific purposes, and then it may scale up. Everyone can do it differently.
Let’s talk about repetition in a little more detail. This is a story we often hear about AI in Hollywood. What does that mean in a practical sense?
When I was trying to convince people higher up the food chain that office And I said, “I don’t like this Michael Scott,” and I said, “Trust me, they’re going to like him.” Or I say, “Their office seems like a depressing place,” and I say, “It’s depressing, but interesting.” And I just tried to convince them. But now you can try different things with the model. And you can make a presentation [the video] You can see what’s working and what’s not internally in a way that wasn’t possible before.
This sounds convincing when you talk about it from a speed perspective. But it changes completely and actually decreases significantly — Sets and filming are the lifeblood of this business. How do you argue with those who say that Hollywood is eliminating the physical production that has worked so well in the past, eliminating not just jobs but an entire art form?
First, we pay people. It’s not just a fake image. It’s from real actors that we’re paying for. But the bottom line is that many productions have budget constraints, which poses a challenge. Look, there will always be movies of Tiffany-level craftsmanship made in the most traditional sense – I see that art form thriving forever. I think you’ll find other outputs and other expressions in this hybrid environment.
But I can see why that hybridity makes many people who work in Hollywood uncomfortable.
i will do it. The ability to move the process forward — it might mean you no longer need those four people to do the work. This causes movement. I was very scared about it. But you’ll also be forcing people to do things they never had to do before. Let’s think about it in terms of other technologies. When I was a kid, if you needed privacy, you had to pull the phone cord and drag yourself into your room. And now when you say that to young people, they look at you like they don’t know what you’re saying. But we moved on and it was fine. Or when flying an airplane, pilots used to fly the airplane visually, but now they use instruments to control it. The way technology is implemented will change. There will be growing pains, but I see this as an exaggerated version of the early internet. You can also fight YouTube to remove your video. Or, at some point, you can recognize that they’re here and work with them.
What do you say to business owners who say they’re going to hold off on this economy for as long as they can?
Our industry is difficult. Generative AI is at the heart of what we do. This is another wave of technology. There were several. It is difficult for those still in power to find their way. But the worst thing you can do is kick down the can or sit with your arms crossed. Kartel is here to say, “How can we educate you guys and how can we help fix what the tsunami destroys?” You know, my old colleague Doug Shapiro. [former chief strategy officer at Turner] wrote on Substack that filmed entertainment tricks the human brain. This is not about growing a tree naturally. We have to use the tools we have to manipulate people’s brains. I love storytelling and acting and I’m not going to replace any of that, but let’s not ride too high a horse. It’s all a cheat to entertain and engage humans. Generative AI is another empowering tool to have fun and participate.
What if you still aren’t convinced?
You see, there’s a lot of people walking in the woods right now in Hollywood. There is a special moment for this tool, a life-changing tool, but how do we make the decision to deploy it on our behalf? Where do we draw the line between whether it empowers us or debilitates us? We have to be honest about what’s going on, but we also have to make era-defining decisions. I want to be a part of that too. I think as many people as possible should participate in it.
